What a fun day today. Music was BW and BOS to Dianas Jenna with BOB Safari was WB. No Select points awarded though. Grace loved being at the dog show again. Even though is not at her best looks wise, she had a great time and her tail neer stopped all day. In Pre-Novice we were 3rd out of 3, but she scored a 186.5 and I am thrilled with that. That is a good score for a dog that still will not sit in the ring. When she is inside those white show gates, her sitter goes out, but she will stack herself like the show girl she wants to be.
My friends Wire Fox Terrier tookWD- he now only needs 1. And another good friend finished his dog, but I will let him post for himself later. Even though he already did on facebook.
29 comments:
Why are you showing Music when all he needs is a major?
By him wining at Key City Kennel Club, you took the points away from another dog that was entered that could use the single point.
From the AKC Stats.
Daybreake's Daydream Believer
- DN21749608
Conformation - Awards Processed Through 15-MAY-2010
Number of Points 12
Number Major Wins 1
Number Major Judges 1
Total Number Judges 7
Just wondering??????????
Congratulations on your work in prenovice with Grace. While I'd like to congratulate you on Music, I can't. When a dog only needs a major to finish, whether you have entered the show hoping it would pull a major entry, typically people do not show the dog that needs only a major. By showing Music you took the minor point from another dog that needs it when your dog does not. This idea that has been floating around that owners should get "spare" points is ludicrous. I keep track of all my dogs wins and points and check it frequently with the AKC online store. The only VALID reason to show a dog that needs a major to finish when there are only minor points is IF the dog could go BOW for a cross over major. The other idea that is total crap is that you keep a dog entered that only needs a major when it's a minor point entry hoping and praying they may go over the specials for the major that way. Please...unless you have the most spectacular dog in the world, don't hold your breath on that one.
If you are going to show and play that kind of game, don't expect people to play nice back when it's your dog down the line that needs minor points and a minored out dog comes in and steals that point, or worse yet, wait until the people that you step on by taking those minor points away come back some day and break the major that your dog might need.
Just some food for thought for the next time.
Congrats with Grace! It must have been all the practicing you did beforehand ? :)
Congratulations on both dogs! I know nothing about confirmation, but it sounds like Gracie did quite wonderful in obedience!
Well,guys, I did not enter Music, but when his owner asked for help showing him today I said I would. Its her decision and her entry fee. Not mine.
He is entered tomorrow too and if she wants to show him or asks me to help her I will.
Well Dawn, you sold Joyce the dog and should be mentoring her. That means you should be giving her good advice about when to show and not to show. After all, she has another dog entered that could have used that 2 points today or tomorrow. If you don't educate her about this before tomorrow's show, I will.
Remember this weekend , because it will come to pass and in a way you will not be happy. I tought you were the co-owner on that dog. So do you or don't you have the ethics be be a fair exhitor who should be mentoring this new to show person or are you just a point hungry twit.
OH for heaven sake, people, grow up!
When you pay your money and enter a show, you have no idea how many dogs will enter. If it's your money, and your time, and you want to show your dog, then that's your business. There are lots of reasons people might show their dog, none of which are anyone else's business. One of those reasons might be for fun and comaraderie. Oh wait, it doesn't sound like there's much of that going on. Gee, I'm sure everyone is just dying to enter a show where people behave this way. Sounds like fun to me.
My suggestion would be for anyone not wanting a singled-out dog to get another single point is to go and beat them in the ring. Not brow-beat them in their own space where they love sharing about their dogs.
Congratulations Dawn, it sounds like it was a fun day. Sorry to rant in your comments, but I'm so tired of bad behavior, and spoiling something for someone else.
Oh, and anonymous, way to be a stand up human being, hiding behind "anonymous" to threaten someone.
Wow, what a real advertisement for someone to want to jump into Cardigans and head to a dog show for a fun weekend.
Quite honestly, I can't imagine what it is like showing Cardigans up in your area. From the way people present themselves in the blogger world, it must be a miracle that there is no bloodshed or tearing out of throats on a daily basis when you all are actually in the same room together.
The vitriol, condemnation of each other, jabs, etc are so unprofessional, mean-spirited, and juvenile I can't even believe it. Down here in the SE we have a diverse group of people who show, not all of whom like each other. But you know what? They don't go around tormenting each other either. If you have a problem with someone, address it with them in private or keep your mouth shut. There's absolutely no need to hang someone out to dry, even if you disagree with something they did.
I'm quite sure that there are times when ALL of us make mistakes or decisions that we later realize we shouldn't have. I'm also quite sure that none of us would enjoy being flogged for those decisions. Extreme cases of bad sportsmanship aside, I think most of us are just doing the best we can at the time. The bottom line is that I don't care who is "right" and who is "wrong"...but the way we treat each other on the journey is indicative of a whole lot.
Wow...I can't believe that people can actually present themselves like this in a public forum.
Where is the sportsmanship? What would you people do in a country like the U.K. where the class dogs compete against the finished champions?
If a dog is good enough to finish, then it should be good enough to defeat the one awarded winners for the points. Showing dogs does not mean "get the good ones out of the way so the second rate can finish".
You would have hated me up here last year. I technically FINISHED Dolly - but most of the points were on my own dogs. She stayed in the classes until I felt she had defeated enough others to EARN her championship. I didn't care what the CKC said - I cared that she prove herself.
I don't know what area of the country this is - but someone please let me know privately so I avoid it!
Wow - I had heard that competing in your area was a snakepit - now we see it in action!
Music's owner paid her entry fee and has every right to show him.
Hope he goes out today and kicks butt!
And congrats on Sister Grace's day!
I'm with Sarah, Jeri, and Shelley here. There are right ways to handle such (minor!) disputes and then there's the other way.
The right way would be to say to a person *in private* that it's usual to pull a dog who only needs a major to finish. I can only imagine how Dawn must feel about all of you people she has to be in the ring with today.
Several years ago at our supported entry in Richland, a bitch was shown who only needed a few points to finish. We had been keeping track and as I recall she had 11 points. Won a 5-point major the first day. Novice owner had not been keeping track so she kept her in the classes the next day, and she won the major again.
While we could have been poor sports about it, needing the major ourselves, we were happy for the owners and recognized that the bitch was deserving. How did we handle it? We bred Alice to the bitch's sire.
It's a dog show. It's supposed to be about judging the dogs.
The only VALID reason to show a dog who needs a major to finish is if you WANT TO SHOW THE DOG. Good heavens in a bucket, people, it's a dog show. If I enter and I find that the top dog in the nation is sitting in the Open class, I need to shut up and show the heck out of my Open entry. You are expressly allowed to keep champions in the classes, you are allowed to show dogs who are minored out, you are allowed to do anything that presents a sporting challenge to any other dog in the show.
You know what you're NOT allowed to do? Screech like harpies at another exhibitor who has done NOTHING wrong.
1. You don't take away a point from a dog needing it if you show a minored out dog. You have to win the point and if your dog isn't good enough maybe you need to look at why you are showing your dog.
2. There are lots of reasons to show a minored out dog. You want an opinon from a particular judge, you paid your money and want to use the show experience to parctice to get in condition to show in major competition.
3. You like to show your dog and maybe you are trying to get to group even with a class dog, maybe you know the entry isn't that "great".
Nobody "owes" it to anyone to pull their dog and until the AKC changes the rules that you can get your $$ back if a major doesn't hold then it isn't anyone elses business.
There are lots of things I don't like about how people play the game but they make their choice and I make mine. I might bitch about it to my friends but if their dog won that day they they won.
So congratulate the winner and try and beat them on another day.
Congratulations Dawn. Sorry your blog post turned into a flame war.
Congratulations on the fantastic day yesterday, Dawn! You just never know when your open dog will go BOW and BOB for that last major...we've seen it happen a few times. :) And we've done it ourselves, so never say never! Good luck today!
Actually Carolyn - I would say its not so much about judging the dogs as it is showing your peers what you are producing, and in turn seeing what is out there that you might be interested in using in your own program.
Do any of us go to the American National with the intention of winning it? I'll tell you I haven't and even though the last two have been very good to me, I still wouldn't. But I want to see the other dogs, and I want my peers to see what I have produced recently. AND, most importantly, I go to socialize with like minded people. Take the socialization out of dog shows and the sport will be dead. It's already heading that way.
"If you don't educate her about this before tomorrow's show, I will."
That's pretty much begging to be brought up on charges and fined or suspended.
If you do not have something nice and supportive to say to or about a fellow exhibitor, a judge, or a dog, either say it under your breath where no one can hear you or DO NOT say it at all. That kind of rank unsportsmanly conduct on show grounds is taken extremely seriously by AKC and is completely unacceptable.
If this kind of threatening and backbiting has become the norm out in that section of the country, I am horrified.
In my 43 years of owning, showing and breeding Cardis, I have always told people how very nice, supportive and helpful people in the breed were.
What has happened? Have we gotten too big? Are there not enough people still in the breed who remember when we had to write letters to people, hoping they would bring their dogs to our area so that we could even have points, sometimes, let alone a major.
Showing a dog who only needs a major when the major is broken is up to the dog's owner. Some do and some don't.
Personally, I don't show to have large numbers of champions... As those who know me can tell by the few dogs I've shown and the few litters I've had in 43 yrs. :-)
However, I'm just as competitive as anyone when I get that dog in the ring. But, the winning in the ring begins when the litter is planned, the bitch is bred, the puppies are whelped and the selection process has begun.
Always try to breed the absolute best you can, show that dog (or bitch), and you will win some and, of course, some days you will lose. But don't make it such a serious issue over a point, or two or three. If you take a great dog into the ring, you will finish that dog.
Please don't take the fun out of showing by squabbling.
sandi
Wow! Sounds like some people need a reality check!
Or- at the very least, need to read the AKC Code of Sportsmanship, which is printed on every catalog, every entry!
"Sportsmen commit themselves to values of fair play, honesty, COURTESY and VIGOROUS COMPETITION, as well as winning and losing with grace."
It is entirely fair and proper to show your dog if there is any chance of being awarded that elusive major- EVEN if the only way to earn that major is by winning Breed over Specials. It happens- and you don't have to have "the best dog in the world"- to do it! I have finished dogs that way- and he certainly wasn't a great dog! Just happened to be the judges choice on the day!
My friend finished her dog, who needed a major, by winning the Non-Sporting Group. There were no points in her breed that day- but she showed anyway, because her dog needed the ring experience.
You paid your money- you have every right to take your dog in that ring!
Congratulations on a great day at the dog show. I am glad you had fun- don't let poor sportsmanship from a handful of people ruin the day for you!
Dawn, congratulations on your wins yesterday and I hope you did as well today. I have owned Cardigans for almost 30 years and it is very different around the ring now than when I started. That is why you don't see me in the ring anymore.
Congrats on your win--I wonder if the people who posted the angry messages would have done so if they had to sight their real names? Doubt it. Threats are also unlikely if someone has to give their name.
I think these folks should be ashamed . . . but cowards rarely are.
So Congrats!
And I'll sign my name, too: from Melissa Barth proud mom of cardi Skeezix (CH Social's Skeezix w/ 4 4pt. majors), Riley the cardi rescue and Daisy the pemmie puppy mill rescue.
Congrats to Dawn and Joyce.
I've been the person beaten by that dog before - heck there's been 1 in our area for a couple years. You know what? If my dog isn't winning that's my OWN fault, not the winners. They earned that win. And if Joyce and Dawn want to show Music, that is fine and would be fine with me.
Dawn, I wish you lived closer so that you could see not every area is like this. I'd say in our part of the county (and many others from what my friends say) even if we don't get along or agree and bitch in private we still are all nice and happy for the winner. We all have been there both winning and loosing.
For you people who are setting such a good example....GO BREED A BETTER DOG and put your money where your mouth is.
take this for what it's worth - i don't own your breed, i just spayed my bitch because i don't care to play the breed ring games.
but in the sport i love and choose to compete in, if you want to get a CH (the coveted OTCH - obedience trial champion) - you've got to play with the big boys. if you want to win, you have to beat the best, become the best, and deserve it. you pay your entry fee, you get in the ring, and you work. you don't expect other people to get out of the way. no one is going to graciously bow out because they already got the title - in this area, you show in the same ring as 10-15 other dogs that already have their OTCH on any given day, FIGHTING them tooth and nail for those few OTCH points. dogs with 1500 OTCH points that don't NEED them take them every single day from dogs just as deserving, that just need or want 1 or 2!!!
but it's nice to have some people's opinion of the breed ring confirmed!
Kim, the fact that so many people are condemning the behavior should tell you that it is NOT normal.
The breed ring is like any other competition at high levels - the difference being that whereas in agility or obedience you start in Novice or Pre-Novice and have a little while of being at a level with your experience-peers (at least the dogs all have roughly the same level of experience), in the breed ring you can show up for your first day with your first show dog and be in the same dinky ring with the number-one dog in the nation who fully expects to go on to BIS that day and who is being financed to the tune of hundreds of thousands of dollars.
It would be like if every dog, including an OTCH5, started in Pre-Novice or Novice for the day and then had to beat all of them, then beat all the Open A dogs, then beat all the Open B dogs, then beat Utility A and B before they would be awarded a HIT ribbon. Conversely, to place in a Novice class the Novice dog would have to beat the OTCH5 dog. It leads to some very strange tensions, but on the whole the breed ring is a very positive and collegial place to be and is nothing to avoid.
snip from previous post.....The other idea that is total crap is that you keep a dog entered that only needs a major when it's a minor point entry hoping and praying they may go over the specials for the major that way. Please...unless you have the most spectacular dog in the world, don't hold your breath on that one........end of snip
I've seen it happen. I left my dog in the ring when he only needed a major. The other class dog went BOB both days. Gee, I'd have to look, but I think it was over 5 specials.
My point is "never say never."
Dawn, congratulations to you and Joyce. You paid your money and have every right to show the dog if you want to.
Maybe the people posting nasty comments about it should a) read the sportsmanship portion of their premium list, and b) breed a better dog instead of bitching about losing to one.
I'm actually ashamed that people within our breed can act that catty and rude. This is exactly where people on the outside of the show world get the opinion that conformation people are rude, nasty, mean and well, can't get along.
Who knows what a judge is going to do from day to day? He could have gone breed for the last major or there could have been one or two more entered to create the major. Unfortunately, many are no longer communicating about where they might go and what they have to enter, which may have helped create the larger entry.
But in this case, communication didn't happen, Joyce paid her money and has every right to show her dog. And what would have been the attitude had she pulled and heavens it caused the points to go down or even, made it no points for that sex?
Congratulations to all of you on your wins this weekend and to being the better person in this all.
I am so sorry Joyce and Dawn to see these types of comments. You can come and show in my area anytimes as it is not that far away and we are not that way and much more welcoming. I showed my male pointed out and he went breed over specials and finished his championship in Fargo. Even though he was finish I kept him in to hold the major. He won it everytime, but it gave the other dogs a chance at it and the bitches as well. He won 6 majors to his Championship....I could have moved him up and started his grand but I am not that type of person. My other male also went BOB over specials after being pointed out to get his major as there was no majors in the classes. You never know what the judge is thinking and never assume you do. Dawn and Joyce I am proud of your wins and you should be too and do not let others get you down. We all are point makers and point takers at some point. I was a point maker with my bitch for 44 shows thousands of dollars in entries, hotel, and equipment over 2 year until she got her first point and finished very quickly after. It all depends on the lines you have if they look like they are going to the rest of their life at 6 months or if it take them til 4 years old and a few litters to mature out. I was told by a good friend when you lose everyone loves you and when you win they hate you but remember in the end the only opinion that counted for that day is the judges as that what you paid your money for. This has help me as people talk when you win or talk about you when you are not there and then you hear about it later just brush it off and get back up and know that you are the better person for it and remember these lessons and when you see a new person or you mentor someone. (I have to check myself sometime too) Remember how it felt and make sure that you do not do this to someone else. That is the way that you will change the tide of negativity...one person at a time.
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